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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  March 13, 2013 2:00pm-3:00pm PDT

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he's the guy who goes out there and yells and gets a lot of attention but has nothing of substance to offer. so he's exactly the wrong man for this moment for that party. >> krystal, he also makes up stories. like he alleges that the president never achieved any of his academic qualifications. he claims that the president wasn't born in america. i mean, he's like l. ronn hubbard. >> he's everything debasing of our democracy from the gop as you're pointing out. the conspiracy theories. the race baiting. it's all come from him. by putting him up as such a symbol of this conference i think it does undermine his legitimate legitimacy completely. >> jonathan, perhaps you can enjoy the preparty. tonight senator ted cruz of texas will be the keynote speaker at a conservative awards dinner in washington. and his big issue right now is
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repealing the affordable care act. in fact, he gave his maiden speech in the senate today on this very issue. but here's my question. if ted cruz is the future of the republican party, then why is he reaching back into the past for issues that have already been resolved? >> well, they've been already resolved for the rest of the american people. >> except paul ryan who also loves to repeal the affordable care act. >> right. but for the republican party, particularly for the conservative wing of the republican party, obama care, the fordable care act is not settled business. no matter what the supreme court says, no matter what congress says. remember, congress has tried more than 30 times to repeal the affordable care act to no avail. >> 32 times. krystal, are they wishing to relitigate, perhaps, the last election as well? >> i think they've got nowhere else to go. i really think they have no other idea and they have to fall back on the thing they've been saying for the past four years. >> wow. jonathan capehart and krystal
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ball, thank you both. >> thanks, martin. >> thanks so much to you for watching on a historic day. chris matthews, of course, will pick things up right now. hope for the pope. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with the election of a new pope. it brings with it a great hope and not just for catholics. it pro promises a progressive church. he's a jesuit. living in a small apartment. taking the bus to work. the new pope has said things about capitalism and its failure to deliver economic justice that could drive the right wing nuts. he's the living illustration for what i've learned of the belief free markets need to be offset by an active social justice toward those in need. h is the catholic church that looks out for the poor, that
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distances itself from power and wealth, that is skeptical that capitalism will raise all. that the poor can count on the wealth of the rich to trickle down to the people living in the barrios. big surprise in rome tonight. the cardinals picked a jesuit. someone from the americas. someone who identifies with the poor. those who don't get a break from sharp elbowed capitalism. i find this fascinating and enormously surprising. francis i. i like him already. we're going to have a big tussle here, by the way, later in this half hour by a pair of political heavyweights, robert gibbs for the dems and steve schmidt for the republicans. stunning election in the vatican. mike barnicle and george weigel, nbc news vatican analyst. i want to start with mike. as a fellow american generalist and a catholic, what is your -- how surprised were you by picking this guy known for social justice and for humility and for really looking out for the little people to use the phrase we often use? >> well, you know, chris, i was -- i was actually stunned by
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two things. and one i had forgotten. i had forgotten about the theater of the church. the explosion of people in st. peter's square. the universe yalty of the church. the fact that not everyone in st. peter's square was catholic. and the fact that the curia, college of cardinals, selected a jesuit as our next pope to me was very surprising. and very encouraging, actually. despite the fact he's 76 years of age, a little older than i think a lot of american catholics expected the next pope to be in terms of age, he is a jesuit. and in terms of what the jesuits are and what they profess, the faith that they have, the faith that they preach, the faith that they practice, social justice. economic justice. not hiding from the realities of economic inequality. not only in argentina and latin america but around the world. specifically in the united states. i think the pope's voice is going to be a strong one. he's going to put an oar in that
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water. he's going to be rowing against the current that exists right now. but he is the pope and his voice will be heard. i'm very encouraged by that aspect of his papacy. >> george, thanks for coming on. you're the expert. i really liked him immediately. that first impression, the guy, just little things. the way he was not taking instruction from the people who were choreographing him. he said give me this now. do this now. he seemed to be calling the shots right from the get-go. maybe that's an overinterpretation, but it's the way i saw it tonight. >> no, i think that's right, chris. i spent an hour with cardinal bergoglio in buenos aires last may. the first thing that needs to be said about this man is that he's a true man of god. this is someone with a very deep and rich spiritual life. he is all that you are saying about his humility, his simplicity. i would not jump to any conclusions about his politics. he's been very critical of the government in argentina. he is also a jesuit who is
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something of a contradiction within the jesuit order. he was the provincial of the junior college jesuits in argentina. he was a man of dynamic orthodoxy. that did not sit too well with many of his more left leaning colleagues. he was sent off to teach chemistry at a jesuit high school in northern argentina. from which he was rescued by john paul ii. and that's the next thing that needs to be said here. this is a j.p. ii guy. this is a man very much formed by the pontificate of john paul ii who loved him to pieces. i think we're going to see a little bit more of that in this pontificate as it goes forward. the name francis is obviously very suggestive of a church of real compassion for the underdog. which doesn't necessarily translate into any particular political or economic program. but does suggest that this guy
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is going to take a little bit of the baroquebaroque gilding off papacy. >> let's start with the notion here that the ensickly kl -- actually, skepticism towards capitalism. when i read that in his brief life description here, i was taken with the fact that he -- i know he may not be a dorothy day catholic. but he may well be someone who does have that usual church suspicion of capitalism. a lot of our popes have had that suspicion through the 20th century. they're not ayn rand people. they don't buy the marketplaces, the great arbiter of what's good in the world. >> we've only known the pope now in terms of him being pope for, what, two hours. but he is remindful, at least to me, of an argentinian virgin of cardinal o'malley from boston. >> yeah. >> he's filled with humility. i agree with george.
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i think we don't want to misread or misinterpret or interpret too early his politics. but the fact is that he does stand for social justice. he is a jesuit. and we have not -- and he stands on behalf of vikt ms. vikt ms of all sorts of things. victims of economic injustice. victims of social inequality. victims of racial inequality. and even sexual inequality. he has, i think, addressed that in part. not, i think, many american catholics hoping for a more progressive view of catholicism are going to be disappointed. but we're going to let this play out. we're going to hear this man speak. i was greatly encouraged by one small thing that happened this afternoon. in that he asked for silent prayer. he didn't stand and issue his own prayer. he asked for silent prayer. we had the millions of people there in st. peter's square and perhaps around the world watching invoking their own silent prayer. >> let me go to george on the jesuits. i'm a jesuit trained guy with
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the holy cross. i love the guys of georgetown, the priests over there that are still there. we're losing a lot of jesuits. we don't have as many as we used to have. they're thoughtful. they're intellectual. they're deeply religious. but they sort of are in their own ways fascinating people. and -- because they chose this life. >> yeah. chris, a couple of things. first, let's just go back a second to something mike said. one of the other things that cardinal bergoglio has steadfastly resisted is the creeping left wing authoritarianism of the kerr ch ner government in argentina. i tried to send him a book as a gift after i came back from meeting him last may. the book came back a month later addressee unknown. i sent the book to him through a private source. he then sent me a note saying, i'm sorry for the inconvenience. but i'm sure you understand. >> what did you make of that?
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>> which, indeed, i did. well, his mail was being intercepted by the government, obviously. on the point of his jesuit background, this is a classic, old school jesuit. a man of serious intellectual discipline and capacity. a man of real spiritual discipline. we've talked about already what a humble guy he is. how simply he lives. he used to take the tram to work in buenos aires. rubbing elbows with the folks. that's who he is. there's no put on about that. so i think there's going to be a real simplification of papal style here. and that's no bad thing in a church close to 65% of which now lives in the global south. that's a pope that those people can relate to. his first big public test will come this summer when he goes to
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brazil for world youth day. i think he'll be a smashing success there. it'll be an enormous celebration of catholicism in latin america. but let's also remember, this is a guy of the western hemisphere. the papacy has crossed the atlantic. that's a threshold point for the catholic church, and it's something that all of us, i think, on both sides of the rio gra grande can take a lot of satisfaction in. >> mike, let's talk about that politics o mof moving to our mes fear. an italian father. definitely a latino. he comes from that part of the world. i was thinking in this country if you're puerto rican or cuban or mexican-american or come here from guatemala or colombia like so many do, you must be thinking pretty big about yourself right now that you've got somebody like you with a spanish background, spanish accent, in fact, you've got somebody like you from that part of the world as the leader of the entire biggest church in the world. >> sure. and there's another element,
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too, chris, in addition to that that you just pointed out. it is this, i think. if you view the church as a corporation, and part of the church is a corporation, and if you view the college of cardinals or the curia as the board of directors in the sense they are the board of directors, they selected a guy from one of the growth industries in that corporation. latin america. i mean, the huge burgeoning catholic population. the growth of the catholic church in latin america, places like africa and the philippines. rather than the deterioration in europe and north america because what's happened in the united states over the last 10 or 12 years. >> i've got the word the vice president is going to be sent over. not the president. that's too bad. joe biden will be a perfect emissary for the country as well as the president. thank you, all. george weigel, as always, great to have you on msnbc at this time, of course, you are the best.
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mike barnicle,s s as always, we think very similarly there are brillia brilliantly. the republicans say they learned the lesson in the 2012 election. why are they issues budgets that are more progressive than last year's loser? why are they refusing to confirm president obama's nominees? why do they vote unanimously against any gun control including background checks? in short, why are they doing exactly the things that got them clobbered in november? could it be that they care more about tearing obama down than getting themselves up? plus, the butler did it. or the bartender. actually the man who made the infamous romney 47% tape has come forward. he's going to show himself tonight on ed schultz. he's going to be ed schultz' guest tonight. we're going to talk to ed about that and the surprising reason the bartender made the tape. i don't think it's that surprising. whether he realized he was holing on to political dynamite. the senate panel heard grim and disturbing testimony about sexual assaults in our own u.s. military. bad stuff. the thousands of cases, only a tiny percentage actually acted
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on. senator kirsten gillibrand says it's time to change that. how the vatican will be a pope committed to social justice. that's "hardball," "the place for politics." the place for politics." [ male announcer ] every day, thousands of people are choosing advil® for their headaches. my name is sunshine and i have three beautiful girls. i like taking advil® for a headache. it nips it in the bud. and i can be that mommy that i want to be. ♪ [ male announcer ] take action. take advil®. but, dad, you've got... [ voice of dennis ] allstate.
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with accident forgiveness, they guarantee your rates won't go up just because of an accident. smart kid. [ voice of dennis ] indeed. are you in good hands? in a moment more on the new pope that was declared today, elected today. first those voter id laws are keeping likely democratic voters from casting ballots. that's the conclusion of a new study that finds that voter id laws disproportionately hurt younger, minority voters. the study found two-thirds of young african-american voters, for example, were asked to show ids before voting compared with just over 40% of young white voters. compared with their white counterparts, significantly more of those african-americans and latinos said their lack of an id kept them from trying to vote in the first place. the study was conducted by
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>> translator: i announce to you news of great joy. we have a new pope. >> habeus papam. today's papal election marks the first time the pope has come from south america or anywhere in the americas. he took a name francis. what will this new pope mean for latin americans? especially latin america back fwround people in this country and what will it say about social outreach for progressives? we are thinking politically here as always. maria teresa kumar of voter latino. both questions. first of all, significance geography. first time the papacy has come over to this part of the world. >> what a year it's been for the latinos. first the president. now we're making sure the people are paying attention to the news they need with the pope. >> aren't you the bargainer? i thought i had a hand in that. i thought i voted for him. >> we flex our muscle. in all seriousness it's recognizing the increased clout latin america is having and the importance of making sure we're paying attention to the needs of
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the -- >> just a guess but in caracas, rio, everywhere in latin america tomorrow the headline is going to be screaming. >> people are screaming now. even here in the united states there's incredible pride for it. people are trying to see how much is he going to be able to modernize the church. as you may know he has been against contraception, for example. he's been against marriage equality. for a catholic church that's increasingly young, these are issues that he's going to have to figure out how do you modernize them. >> how is he going to sell himself? he's going to have to do something the liberals want. >> he's going to start focusing on poverty. poverty is a very big issue not just for catholics but across the world. something that for whatever reason in the last decade has become kind of a dirty word. >> can you mark him as a theologian -- i went down to rio or ba .
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we had a priest come in. he was a liberation thee loejen. clearly. the only two sins are nuclear war and racisracism. these guys are -- >> this provides an open space to have an honest discussion with the catholic church of how it does need to modernize. the fact he's talking about poverty. it's a big deal. >> did you watch him up there closely? did you notice how he was shucking off those people telling them what to do? give me that other thing. not the puppets they usually have that tells them what they're supposed to do. he was calling these mini shots. >> he basically said, i got this. >> i got this? who's that sound like. obama. >> oh, dear. i think -- but it demonstrates he will have a vision for the church. i think that, again, as long as he can talk and embrace the growing demographic which is a young demographic of catholics that's where he can actually -- >> i'm hopeful. we have to hopeful. thank you. i think he's going to be good on economics. thank you maria teresa kuma. up next, republicans say they
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learned the lesson of the 2012 election. why are they digging in on gun safety, opposing pipt taxes, opposing them. talking about repealing obama care. opposing it. that's what they do. that's ahead. this is "hardball," the place for politics. as your life and career change, fidelity is there for your personal economy, helping you readjust your retirement plan along the way. rethink how you're invested. and refocus as your career moves forward. wherever you are today, a fidelity ira has a wide range of investment choices
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welcome back to "hardball." the chasm between president obama and republicans that was so pronounced in his first term shows no sign of narrowing. yesterday zero republicans voted to advance the seemingly easiest of the big three pieces of gun legislation. a background check. st zero. not one. they've dug in on taxes. no new taxes under any circumstances. yesterday paul reid offered a budget that zeros out the president's health care plan. today texas senator ted cruz proposed a plan to defund obama care himself. with polls showing the president's approval rating dropping, a new "washington post" poll put it down at 50% now, down five points from a month ago. republicans may have decided to stick to their old playbook. hope some of the mud that covers them sticks to the president.
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steve schmidt is former senior adviser to the mccain/palin '08 presidential campaign and senior strategist on the bush/cheney '04 presidential campaign. robert gibbs was senior adviser for president obama's 2012 re-election campaign and served as white house press saek tear. of course, both are now msnbc colleagues. in fact, analysts as well. thank you. steve, i want to start by throwing some dirt ball at you. i don't know how you're going to catch this one. >> yes. >> as we've all watched for the last two or three months now since the horror at newtown, connecticut, where all those 6 and 7-year-old kids were slaughtered, basically, we've all watched to see what the government's going to do about that. and now we learn the republican senators, to a man, to a woman, i suppose, have voted against not only they're not going to do assault rifles, not going to do the magazines limiting them to ten rounds or whatever, they're not even going to cast one single republican senate vote for stronger background checks. how can your party be completely against gun safety?
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>> well, it's an issue that i think a lot of democrats also, chris, are towing the nra line on. you know, my personal view is that if i was -- i would vote for background checks. i think it's critical -- on the issue. i think it's fair to say the national rifle association may be the most power -- group in washington. those republican senators i think are making votes based on their political vulnerabilities or their perceived vulnerabilities in a republican primary. they don't want to lose the "a" rate ing. they don't want to come under attack from the gun lobby. >> what is that about, robert gibbs? who's the boss? like on the tv show. is la pierre the boss or the republican party its own boss? >> i think you've got republican congressmen that are far more concerned about a primary challenge than they are anybody -- >> these are u.s. senators in for six-year terms.
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they're supposed to be the guys in robes that think deliberately, big picture. they won't touch anything on gun safety. >> i think, look, this is going to be an interesting issue because -- i think it has been for a while. the public supports this at 92%. if something the public supports 92% can't get through congress i think it does give you a sense of the real structural problems that we have in terms of gridlock. >> but they don't -- let me go back to steve. your party doesn't even want to catch the nuts. i mean, it's one thing to say everybody has a right to own a gun. and can be completely pure about it. the second amendment means carry anything you want if you can carry it. the right people have the right to buy a gun if they've got problems. criminals. wife beaters. mental, emotional problems that are clearly on the books. they've been ordered by courts to do things like spend time inside. and they still can call up and say, give me the best gun you got with the most rounds and the fastest i can shoot. i mean, why would a republican want to have that position? everybody that wants a gun
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should get one under any circumstance no matter what the condition of their head or their emotions or their criminal record? >> there are -- there are millions and millions of republican voters out there, chris, who don't share that position. people who support the second amendment believe you have a right to keep and bear arms. that's constitutionally prescribed. that doesn't mean that the government doesn't have the ability to regulate at some level the purchase of guns and make sure that guns don't wind up in the hands of people who shouldn't have guns. so i think when you see the republican senators make the vote that they made, they're not just on the wrong side of public opinion, they're on the wrong side of public opinion when you just look at nra members and you just look at republican voters. so this is speaking to the power of the lobby in washington, d.c. and it's another example of which there are many out there of political timidity. >> today one guy who doesn't have any timidity, i wish he had a little more, texas senator ted
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cruise. let's listen to senator cruz make his case to eliminate the president's health care plan. >> in my view, obama care should be repealed in its entirety. and that was the very first bill i introduced in the u.s. senate. but at a minimum, in my judgment, obama care should not be funded and implemented at a time when our economy is gasping for breath. >> in other words, don't get rid of the military. just don't spend a nickel on it. their guy is basically saying in this sort of strange orwelian way, we're going to get rid of it by just not funding it. it's the minimum we can do. that guy is something else. >> let's not make sure we don't use ted cruz as a barometer for much in washington. he reminds me of the japanese soldier that we found on the philippines years after world war ii ended still in his cave ready to go to war. the courts decided the issue of
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health care. the election decided the issue of health care. it's the law of the land. and i think it is -- like i said, let's not use him as a barometer on this. because i think the same people in the republican party understand that although they may not like it, it's the law of the land and it's going to move forward. >> steve, where are you on this? do you think it's a settled deal? i think it is. i'd like to think it is -- >> it is a settled deal. look, i'm not an obama care supporter. i think most republicans are not. i think that there will have to be reforms to it as time goes on. but the problem with what ted cruz is doing, although it might be good politics for ted cruz and his standing in the faction of the republican party that he represents, is it keeps us permanently looking backwards on an issue that robert just described that's been settled by the supreme court, that's been settled by the last election. so the issue going forward is how do we project a message that
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the american people will find appealing. how do we get back on track after having lost the popular vote in 5 out of the last 6 elections. when you keep focused on the past the way that ted cruz is doing, it keeps you from moving forward. it's just bad politics. >> just to give you a chance to take something, take a popular position, taxes. it seems to me that your party has made it very hard for the president, they've dug in on taxes. their position is they have already given -- they gave the 1%. that's it. by the way, here's mitch mcconnell talking on that one. here he is. >> there is no revenue solution on that i would say to you. it has to be done by making the eligibility for entitlements fit the demographics of america today and tomorrow. the only way to straighten america out is to fix the entitlement issue. >> well, today president obama said that kind of inflexibility, refuse to even look at taxes, could scratch any deal. let's listen to the president respond to that. >> ultimately it may be that the
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differences are just too wide. if their position is we can't do any revenue or we can only do revenue if we gut medicare or gut social security or gut medicaid, if that's the position, then we're probably not going to be able to get a deal. >> so is that -- speaking for the president -- let me go back to steve. i said i would give you the first shot here. if the deal is you got to raise revenues up to a trillion dollars for reform or whatever is there not going to be a deal? because republicans don't look like they're going to go for it. >> look, i think there's been a number of senators that said they are open to a grand bargain if -- fundamentally what everyone agrees an inherently uncompetitive tax code that makes the country incompetitive, that's the drag on the economy. the top rates are now 39%. i'm not sure how much higher people want them to go. why think that 40 cents on the
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dollar isn't your fair share? when measure itch mcconnell is about the demographics of the country, he's correct. we need to reform these programs in order for them to stay. any time the republicans talk about reform and the president responds in the context of this is gutting the programs, i don't think that that creates an environment where you can have a common sense debate on these issues. >> i agree with you on that. when the president came back and whipped back at you guys and said i'm not going to gut these programs, like saying i'm not going to touch them. steve schmidt, i noticed -- you're in the higher economic brackets. i noticed that new sensitivity to the 39% i hadn't seen from you before. thank you very much, robert gibbs. right now we know the answer to one of the biggest mysteries of the 2012 election. it was the bartender. that's who did it. who recorded mitt romney's infamous 47% comments. he did it. the working people. they got some power, too. you know, he's going to be ed schultz's guest tonight. ed's going to join us in a couple minutes to tell us what he's up to tonight with this amazing whistle blower. this is the place for politics. .
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zblnch i'm hampton pearson with your cnbc market wrap. the dow hits another record high closing up for a ninth straight session. it's the first nine-day winning streak since 1996. the dow gains five points, the s&p and the nasdaq gaining two each. as for the economy, retail sales jumped more than expected in february, rising 1.1%. and the federal reserve will now put out monetary policy statements at 2:00 p.m., cutting down the time between releases and the chairman's quarterly news conference at 2:30. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball."
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there are 47% of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. there are 47% who are with him who are dependent upon government, who were they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them. who believe they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, you name it. my job is not to worry about those people. i'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility to care for their lives. >> welcome back to "hardball." with those words mitt romney pretty much seemed his image as the candidate of the top 1% of the country. did more than anything else people believe to derail his campaign. the comments were taped at a fl fundraiser last may. until now, till tonight, actually, one thing has remained a mystery. who shot the video and what was the motivation for releasing it? tonight we find out my colleague ed schultz has an exclusive
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interview with the man behind the tape. he was a bartender. ultimately decided to release the tape because he thought people should hear what a candidate for president was willing to say behind closed doors. let's take a look. >> i simply wanted his words to go out and everybody could make a judgment based on his words and his words alone. the guy was running for the presidency. and these were his core beliefs. and i think, you know, everybody can judge whether, you know, that's appropriate or not or they believe the same things he does. but i felt then an obligation to expose the things that he was saying. >> ed, thank you for joining us. good luck tonight. i think a lot of people will be watching. i just want to ask you, next time somebody has a fundraiser at some swank hotel or something they're going to clear that room of anything that looks like a recording device. this thing looks like it was set up on a table behind some flowers. was it covered up so that people wouldn't see it? because it looks like it was -- if you notice it's all framed by stuff around it. where was it, do you know?
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>> chris, it was just about 20 yards from mitt romney. it was sitting right on the table. and it was not an effort to do anything politically. it was just a worker, a wage earner, who said, hey, i'm going to be kind of close to one of two guys who's going to be president of the united states. i want to get this on tape just so i have it as a souvenir. and so he started recording it. and when he found out what was unfolding, you know, he was totally at odds with what was being said. and thought that it didn't match up with anything mitt romney was saying out in public. and he thought it was a serious injustice that was going to be done on the american people. and he thought that he had to bring it forward. he tells that story tonight. he talks about the anguish that he went through in deciding what to do with it, how to do it, how he used the social network. and how all of a sudden he was cast in the thick of it when the president of the united states used that material in the second and most crucial debate.
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it's really an amazing story. >> ed, in your interview with him you asked him why he decided to release the tape. let's take a listen to his response. >> how big of decision was it for you to release the tape and to go through all of this? >> it was -- it was -- it was tough. and i debated for a little while. and, you know, but in the end i -- i really felt like it had to be put out. i felt i owed it to the people that couldn't afford to be there themselves to hear what he really thought. >> you know, you and i are intuitive guys. we try to figure out these things. from the first day you probably figured it was somebody -- wasn't one of the people paid 10,000 bucks to go in there. they were going to screw the guy they were applauding. it was a worker. one of the caterers. had a point of view, perhaps, but definitely had the access to do it. nobody else would want to do it. what do you think the atmospherics were like between the workers as you prefer to them and the fat cats? was there a sense of oh, my god, these people are sucking this up?
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they're loving this stuff? they love that 47% stuff? >> what's interesting, he was not the only one in the room with a camera. it was in a private home. people were taking pictures. people were doing what they do with their cameras. he just set it right there on dounter there and let it do all the work. then he realized what he had. that's when, of course, the story started to unfold and personally it is quite a journey for the guy. you know, he could have gone obviously on "60 minutes." they've been after him. every news magazine in the country's been after him. but this is a pure guy. he didn't sell himself out. he wasn't trying to get a bang for a buck. he didn't want to inject himself into the election cycle. he knew what he had. but he knew he had to get the story out to the american people because he thought there were some serious discrepancies in mitt romney and what he was all about. and he will tell the story tonight on what really tripped his trigger as to why he had to do this and what he thought was the serious, serious injustice being played out. >> romney was asked about that 47% comment on fox earlier this month.
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let's take a look at what he said then so many months later. let's watch. >> it was a very unfortunate statement that i made. it's not what i meant. i didn't express myself as i wished i would have. you know, when you speak in private, you don't spend as much time thinking about how something could be twisted and distorted and can come out wrong and be used. but, you know, i did, and it was very harmful. what i said is not what i believe. >> wow. >> it's not right wing, left wing, upper class, rich screwing people. it's totally going confidence. that guy should never have been president of the united states. first of all, everything he said there was not true. what did he mean to say, 46%? listen to the tape again. i just is clear how he thought about it. how he meant this is my crowd. these are the people that are going to vote for me. this other crowd -- i need you more than ever because this other crowd of people who depend on some of these programs aren't going to vote for me. so i need you even more.
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it was a pitch is what it was. >> there's no question about it. that interview, that clip that you just played was the turning point. that was the tipping point. that's when this man decided that he was going to go public. and he chose my venue, "the ed show," because we advocate for workers. we've been doing that -- >> i was going to ask you about your trade craft and how you got this guest. it's just he came to you and he said this is my guy, you know, as simple as that? >> chris, as you well know we all work on interviews. some you get, some you don't. i met this man during the inauguration. he knew who i was. he saw our show in freeport, illinois. he knew what we were all about, what we were fighting for. we were the show that was out there as many others telling the story about income inequality and how workers in this country are getting shafted by the people who were sitting in that room. it was mitt romney's story that motivated him to do this. >> do you realize covering politics the way we do that -- that it depends if it's on tape or not? i was thinking if nixon's comments about jewish people and
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everything else wasn't on tape he would still be president for eight years. if that george allen hasn't said makaka to that kid with the cell phone he would still be the senator. if obama hadn't said what he should have never said to the rich people in san francisco about clinging to guns and religion he would have been better off. it's fascinating how new technology, social networking is really demock ratizing things on both sides. >> he wanted to make sure it was organic. he wanted to make sure the american people knew he wasn't going to be profiting off this. that this was a real deal, that people needed to know, and he wanted to go in the grassroots and let it grow from there. the big thing, i am -- i was so struck by the nobility of this man and the character of this man and how -- how untarnished -- how unvarnished he was. he was not tarnished politically in any way, shape or form. and he talks about that tonight. this was not a get moment. this was something he fell into.
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and it evolved into a political game changer. i don't think fundraisers are ever going to be the same again. >> i think the secrecy, privatesy is gone. i hope everyone sticks around after my show tonight and watches your show. ed schultz with the big get tonight. we'll be watching your exclusive interview as i said tonight at 8:00 on "the ed show." up next, disturbing testimony on capitol hill about the prevalence of sexual assault including rape in the u.s. military between people in the uniforms. do you believe it? both serving their country. one raping the other. this is "hardball," the place for politics. financial obsta military families face, we understand. our financial advice is geared specifically to current and former military members and their families. life brings obstacles. usaa brings retirement advice. what do 5% cash back atit cardrestaurants?you generous. get the new it card at and sign up for 5% cashback at restaurants now through march.
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i was raped during military service and during my first assignment. that was 1988. i was 18 years old. >> i removed myself from training and immediately sought out the assistance from an army chaplain who told me, among other things, that the rape was god's will. >> during my tour on the "u.s.s. frank gable" i was raped by a superior noncommissioned officer. >> we're back. that was disturbing and emotional testimony earlier today at the united states senate armed service subcommittee hearing on sexual assault in the military. many may think that only women are the victim of sexual assault in the military, but often men are as well as we just heard. as you saw in that clip, some 3,000 sexual assault cases were reported in 2011. but the defense department estimates the number of actually incidents is six times that, closer to 19,000. now defense secretary chuck hagel is ordering a review of rules to give commanders the
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authority to overturn sexual assault convictions by military juries. kirsten gillibrand andservicewo network. let me start with the senator. this idea that someone who's taken an oath to the united states to protect this country and uses perhaps, people under him or under her, as sexual opportunities that they can exploit because of their command situation, this is something that is new? or is it just newly understood? >> it's not new, that's for sure. chris, we have the greatest military in the world and i'm grateful for the courage of those who served. but in these instances, we're talking about predators. they're criminals who are targeting their victims and we're talking about 19,000 sexual assaults and rapes each year. more than half against men. and of that, only 2,400 are actually reported. of that, only 240 go to trial. of that, only about 190 are actually convicted. so you're talking about 1 in 100
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convictions for these kinds of crimes. and what we're looking for in this hearing is we're looking for a way to make sure that justice is served. because we have to change the dynamics, we have did change the culture, we have to make it possible for men and women who are victims to actually report these cases so we can have conviction rates increase and have more accountability. >> thank you for joining us. give me a sense of what it's like, the atmosphere. is it injustice? is it just big-shot men lording it over women and covering up for bad, in fact criminal, behavior? i think military culture is about a generation behind where civilian culture is on issues of rape, sexual harassment, sexual assault in the workplace. when you have an insular system that isolates servicemembers from outside forms of redress that really intimidates the survivor, even i would say in a bigger way than even civilian victims, because you're often operating wind your chain of command. it's a hierarchal system in
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which you're intimidated oftentime busy those who outrank you. the vast majority of these 19,000 victims are junior enlisted. just over half of them are male so it's not a women's issue. universally we novick tips feel they're not getting their fair shot at justice. they're either retaliated against by false diagnoses like personality disorders, drummed out of the military, while their senior perpetrator is promoted, given command, maybe transferred out of the unit without any form of -- >> why? explain it to the outside who haven't been in the military. why would they cover up -- i don't mean whistling at a girl or something that might be bad behavior, gross behavior, but not criminal. let's talk about criminal cases where somebody's physically assaulted or raped. why would anybody cover that up? physical assault is a criminal matter, it's a serious criminal matter, they put you in jails if you do it in civilian life. why do they cover up that part of it? that's what i don't get. >> that's a great question and i
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think that needs to be asked directly to the military. i saw it myself as a company commander where my senior commanders swept these cases under the rug, rape cases, sexual assault cases, sexual harassment cases, routinely under the rug. i think it's self-protection, there's careerism in the officer ranks, there's a huge desire to protect oneself and move on. i love the marines, the military and a great military, but we have a serious problem with the treatment of women in particular. and also rape mythology, victim blaming, which we see throughout society as well, but in that insulated system where you really have nowhere to go, you can't quit your job, you're really stuck with the outcome the commander provides. >> i want to talk to the senator about corrections here. if it's a culture, it's hard to deal with a culture, you set rules and teach people as they get trained -- first of all, i have to tell you, i don't get it. a rape is a rape. used to be a capital crime in part of the united states. you don't kid around, cover up,
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you don't do business with them. why would anybody say that's the old boy and protect a person who's committed almost a capital crime? why would you protect a guy like that? >> one thing we're trying to change is there's this thing called a convening authority, be a general up the chain of command who has the decision-making authority to decide whether an allegation geese forward to an investigation and to a trial. and our view is that general, that commanding officer, isn't necessarily trained in rape, isn't trained in legal theory, isn't trained in prosecutorial discretion. so that convening authority is creating a, let's just say, it's a narrowing aspect where not enough cases are actually proceeding. and then, even worse than that we have an example of this, where the conveeping authority had the opportunity to look at a jury's verdict that had convicted this perpetrator and actually overturned it. not having reviewed the evidence. not having heard the testimony. just looking at some clemency
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letters. it's disgraceful if you can have a system where there's no accountability. >> one last question. what percentage of men in the military or women are evil in this regard? 10%? 1 of 10? or worse than that? 1 of 100? >> i would say it's a very small percentage. the point is though that they're serial predators. you don't just rape once, you often rape several times, and the lack of accountability just encourages these serial predators. well-said. thank you for that information. we're going to have to see something get done. senator, we trust you to get something done. thank you, i know you're a victim as well. when we return let me finish with a big surprise out of the vatican. a pope committed to social jus advertise. this is going to be great, i think. [ male announcer ] how do you make america's favorite recipes? just begin with america's favorite soups. bring out chicken broccoli alfredo. or best-ever meatloaf. go to for recipes, plus a valuable coupon. campbell's. it's amazing what soup can do.
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